What's better than one Says Who in a week? How about two? Or, you know, maybe that is worse. Anyway, there were open impeachment hearings and Dan and Maureen gathered to talk about them because history.
Ding ding! It’s a special Says Who bonus episode. As we’ve entered into the impeachment hearings, Dan and Maureen are here to watch and walk you through. Because this is going to be a lot.
A lot of what? Well, a lot of bow ties, and recitation of things we’ve heard, and bullshit. And a lot of water. So much water. Giant bottles of water. Listen to the story of two nerds doing their duty, dealing with questions from increasingly insane carnival employee Jim Jordan and last-pick mental volleyball star Devin Nunes. Why doesn’t Jim Jordan where a jacket? How much water is in that bottle? Is this just how we live now?
This is just the start, SaysWhovia. Pull up a chair to your old podcast player and rock a bit. It’s time. It’s happening. It’s now.
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Your Intrepid Hosts: Maureen Johnson and Dan Sinker
Our awesome theme is courtesy of Ted Leo
We love Darth
Dan: This episode of SaysWho?, the second this week, is brought to you by you at patreon.com/sayswho. Your support at any level helps make this happen, including helps us do this twice in one week, because who needs a life? Patreon.com/sayswho.
Maureen: Also, I'm Maureen Johnson of Books. Let is Snow the movie on Netflix is out. You can watch it for free. Steal a Netflix connection or whatever. I'm not here for Netflix. They did a nice job though. Let if Snow Books. It's really devious. You know the drill. Do it. Books.
Dan: And in case twice in one week is not enough of me, it's enough of me for me, you can get me in your inbox every day by signing up for the impeachment.fyi newsletter at impeachment.fyi/signup. All one word. Then you will get summary of what happened every day in the impeachment proceedings, written by me. That sounds like a threat, but a lot of people have signed up for it. Impeachment.fyi.
Maureen: Special edition. Special edition SaysWho? who who. Special edition ... it is the special edition.
Dan: It is the special edition because Maureen Johnson, it's my birthday.
Maureen: Yup. That's why we're here. You know what I got you for your birthday?
Dan: What?
Maureen: An impeachment hearing.
Dan: Okay. That's great. I'll take it.
Maureen: I mean you'll take it.
Dan: That's a good gift. Could you do it without Devin Nunes next time though?
Maureen: No. You got to have that. You got to have him.
Dan: My next year's impeachment hearing maybe you could do it without him. That would make it more of a happy birthday.
Maureen: What? Well you don't even have to do the preamble ... look this is SaysWho? podcast. It's not a podcast. It's a coping strategy. We're here to talk about what's happening. We're just two people trying to process. We've been trying to process. Now here we are. We have watched the first day of impeachment hearings.
Dan: We sure have. I am Dan Sinker.
Maureen: I'm Maureen Johnson, I wanted to tell you about my carpet.
Dan: That's great.
Maureen: Yeah, that's cool.
Dan: I want to hear about your carpet. That's why everyone's here.
Maureen: That's why everyone's tuned in.
Dan: Carpet cast. It's a special edition carpet cast.
Maureen: Yeah. I live in an apartment in New York and I have area rugs all around. I have had my beloved white shag rugs for the last 10 years, but I've had two puppies in here. One of whom is still a puppy, is clinically insane.
Dan: Oh no.
Maureen: Can I just say that [Dexi] is going through the adorable adolescent asshole phase of her career?
Dan: Yeah. I think that's just called dog.
Maureen: Zelda was the very quiet studious older sibling and Dexi is the funny feisty younger sibling. She's got personality. I frequently find her ... if I turn my back, she's into something.
Dan: Oh no.
Maureen: I go out of the room for a second, and she's fully standing on the dining room table. She likes to flip things up and eat them.
Dan: That's good for the old GI tract.
Maureen: Oh she doesn't seem to have any repercussions from that either. I decided it was time to get rid of my beloved 10-year-old white shag carpet that fills most of my living room. Yesterday, I pulled it out, I rolled it up, and cleaned and steam cleaned the floor while watching and listening to the impeachment hearings.
Dan: Wow. That seems perfect. Perfect setting.
Maureen: It's good to have a job to do. I don't just watch TV, I do something ... I have it on headphones while I do something else. I was steam cleaning the floor like ...
Dan: Do you hear my blowing my nose? It's good.
Maureen: Are you sick then?
Dan: Good for podcasting. I have a cold.
Maureen: Is it because it's been ... is it good, nice weather there?
Dan: No. Well I mean compared to the rest of this week, it is nice in that I think it might actually be above freezing right now. But yeah. Basically we have been passing a cold around our house ever since we got back from Disney World. [Janis] got it worst of all, but I have a bit of a birthday cold.
Maureen: You're welcome.
Dan: It's all right. It's okay. It just means I'm going to be sniffling SaysWhovians. I apologize for that. Maureen Johnson, the first public impeachment hearing since the impeachment of Bill Clinton in the 90s happened yesterday. Yesterday.
Maureen: Yup. What'd you think, Dan? Did you watch the whole thing?
Dan: Honestly ... I had to step out for an hour during the speed round where every member of the committee got the ask five minutes of questions. Let's put quotes around questions. But got five minutes to grand stand. I had to go do another job for an hour of that. But I watched the opening. Opening statements. I watched both lawyers do their thing, and then I watched the beginning of the clown show portion. Then I watched the very end of everything. What about you?
Maureen: I missed the opening statements on purpose because I didn't want them.
Dan: Yeah that was smart.
Maureen: Then I went over and I was like, "All right. Time to turn it on." I started it when Taylor ... Or actually no. Kent started his ... I think he ... yeah, he have the first opening speech.
Dan: Oh you missed Devin Nunes' opening. That was smart.
Maureen: Oh I have a rule that I don't listen to him ever.
Dan: Oh that's brilliant.
Maureen: Because I have a single golden thread of sanity left and I preserve it at all costs. I had to go out, so I got it on my phone and played it on my phone as I was walking around doing my errands. Then I came home to steam clean the floor and pull up the carpet and I continued listening. Then it was done around 3:30. It was more interesting than I thought it would be.
Dan: Oh really?
Maureen: Yeah.
Dan: I found it to be duller than I thought it was going to be. We're at different ends of this spectrum.
Maureen: I really was like, "What is it that they're going to say that we don't know?" I guess the thing that impressed me ... I think what was interesting to me was just how boring these guys were. These were two real nerds. I liked that.
Dan: Oh yeah, they really were. I loved both of them for exactly that. You had William Taylor, who is the acting ambassador to the Ukraine, who spoke in this deep, were Leonard Nimoy-esque voice, which I really ... I enjoyed that voice a lot.
Maureen: We all loved it.
Dan: If I had been a congressperson, and I got my five minutes, I would have sent paragraphs from different books over to him and was just like, "Can you these, please," and then he'd be like, "What is ... " "Ambassador Taylor, just please read this passage."
Maureen: Harry Potter to me.
Dan: Yeah. "Read about the treacle tart they ate in the great hall please." And then he'd be like, "And this is a treacle tart." He had a great voice. I don't know.
Maureen: Can I hear that again.
Dan: No.
Maureen: No I want it.
Dan: "And then they enjoyed a treacle tart." He had a really nice voice. Just resonant. He had that esh thing that Leonard Nimoy had that is really quite pleasant as well. Then you also had George Kent, who is the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs. Just this morning Maureen, when I was making the notes, I realized the best way to describe George Kent, is that he dressed exactly how you would imagine someone named George Kent would dress. He was what you would think is the most George Kent that has ever George Kented in a bow tie and a tweed suit. But it turns out that he is a George Kent of a long line of George Kents.
Maureen: Oh yeah, he went through the lineage.
Dan: Yeah. All of whom have worked as diplomats in the government.
Maureen: He also had a giant water bottle and I was fascinated by it. I'd never seen a witness on anything like that bring ... it was one of those big sport ... was it a neoprene water bottle? It was probably a liter of water, possibly more. It was giant. He had the cap off and between questions, he would take a big old guzzle of that thing. He came in with his bow tie. He looks like if you've seen Good Omens, the Neil Gaiman, Terry Pratchett ... he looks like Azerofel a little bit as Michael Sheen as Azerofel. Very buttoned up saintly guy with a little bow tie. Everything I saw him, I was like, "That's Azerofel." With the giant water bottle. That's there to tell about the long line of George Kents that have done service.
Maureen: They have two different things. The ambassador was very good. Yes. Very good at [inaudible 00:11:32]. But then George Kent would ... he had his water bottle and his bow tie, and every question, he would lean forward and very neatly click on his microphone and say, "I agree with that." And then lean back and click it like, "Done." He was so precise. I loved it. I could've watched those guys for eight more hours.
Dan: They were good guys. Do you think that the water bottle was a compromise because he wanted to wear one of those camel back backpacks on? And just every now and then just lean over and just slurp off some more water out of the tube that sticks up right next to your head?
Maureen: Dan. George Kent has never worn a backpack.
Dan: That's true.
Maureen: George Kent carried a briefcase to kindergarten.
Dan: It's a leather satchel when he wants to feel like he's getting wild.
Maureen: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dan: He was great. I liked bot them a lot. I think that was sort of the point. Put two real nerd, straight-shooter, boring dudes out as your opening. It did offer contrast to the republicans. For those of you that didn't watch, the format was this. There were opening statements. First Adam Shift who's the democratic chair of the committee gave and opening statement, very much stepping through the entire narrative of what the high crimes and misdemeanor were in this case. Then Devin Nunes, who's the republican ranking member, also notable, suing a fake Twitter account on Twitter that pretends to be his cow. He gave an opening statement as well, which was wow, just batshit. Conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory.
Dan: Then the two actually witnesses got to give their opening statements, which were very long and both contextualized themselves and their work and spoke to what they understood of this Ukraine affair that sits of the center of the investigation. Then came the main questioning, which were two 45-minute rounds. The first done by the democrats, the second by the republicans. The rules of engagement were either the chair or the ranking member could ask questions, or they had counsel. One lawyer for the democrats, one lawyer for the republicans. They got a 45-minute block of democratic questions and then a 45-minute block of republican questions. The democratic lawyer was a real good straight-shooter, essentially asking them to corroborate things that they said in their testimony. Because both of these dudes have already testified behind closed doors over the last month. Then Maureen, there was the republican lawyer. You want to tell us a little about him?
Maureen: That guy, I just kept referring to him as I was steam cleaning as the angry hatched-faced man who didn't appear to know ... As far as I understand it Dan, if you're a lawyer, you should never ask a question in court that you don't know the answer to. I thought that was the thing that-
Dan: Yeah.
Maureen: He would keep asking questions about why they did or didn't do something. Or who did something and they would explain that that's not how it's done and how the actual procedures ran. They're like, "Why didn't you have this call at the White House," and they're like, "Because we are stationed in Ukraine, and so regularly what happens if you need ... " and he would be like, "Oh. Okay." He would just sort of ask stuff. I thought as some point he was going to be like, "Where do babies come from," and they're like, "Well here's the thing ... "
Dan: "Well here's the thing. When a man and a woman love each other very much."
Maureen: "It doesn't have to be a man or a woman, we just talk about biological sexual organs coming together in a certain way that timing ... "
Dan: "In a certain way. Depends on the ovulation cycle"
Maureen: "This is statistically ... your rates of success vary depending on your numbers of factors. External and environmental and also biological and ... " I was puzzled because whenever something happens that involves a lawyer that I say, "I don't think lawyers do that," I'm always concerned, because I'm not a lawyer and I shouldn't know more than the lawyer. That's always a thing.
Dan: Yeah. Especially when you consider that each one of these individuals testified for 10 hours, solo, with a full transcript available. You really should have known every part of what they were going to say at this point, but it was amazing to watch him. First of all his face, hatchet-faced is a very good descriptor. My descriptor was at least at the very beginning, he looked like a guy who was working really hard to hold in a fart. Just a real clenched face of concern.
Maureen: Or maybe like Sam the Eagle, but squashed in a panini press.
Dan: But yeah. He opened by basically trying to get them to admit that it was okay for Donald Trump to be pissed at the Ukraine because there were various Ukrainians that made fun of him during the campaign. They just kept being like, "I don't even know what you're talking about." But that was a good 10 minutes of his questioning. Then he switched gears, and his whole thing seemed to be that he wanted to show that these guys were really not important by basically being like, "You two are the go-to guys when it comes to Ukraine. You two are like the Ukraine superstars at the State Department. How come you weren't on the call? Got you."
Dan: Then they were basically like, "Well procedurally, we would never be on a call like that because those calls are actually routed through the National Security Council and not the State Department. We would always appreciate if our National Security Department colleagues would perhaps consult with us, but quite often, they don't. That's their prerogative. But no. Procedurally, we would never be on those calls."
Maureen: Definitely the piece of shit award for the day went to Jim Jordan, who was too angry to wear a jacket. Jim Jordan, jacketless, sleeves rolled up, and he just was there to be the angry baseball dad, I guess.
Dan: Important point of order, he was not on the intelligence committee until Saturday. They brought him in as their ringer.
Maureen: Well I think that explains why he didn't have a jacket.
Dan: That's his signature. Apparently, his deal is that he ... Jim Jordan doesn't wear jackets.
Maureen: Oh you can't cage Jim Jordan in a jacket. The point where I got angriest and felt craziest, was the Jim Jordan line of questing to them, which was ... I have an important point to make about this Dan, which was-
Dan: I'm excited.
Maureen: What if you're wrong? His whole thing was, "Well you said this," and they're like, "Yes. That's what I heard." And they're like, "That's what you heard?" And they said, "Yes." And they said, "Well what if you're wrong?" And they said, "Well we're just here to tell you what we were told." And they said, "But what if you're wrong?" And they said, "Well we are just here to tell you what we were told." And they said, "You're here to tell us what you were told?" And he said "Yes." And they said, "Well what if that never happened? And in fact it did never happen." And they were like, "Dude, what? What do you want? Is that a question?"
Maureen: Jim Jordan managed to break from ... this was basically the procedure of his logic was, "What you came to tell us what you heard?" "Yes." "This is what you were told?" "Yes." "Well what if you're wrong?" "Well we're not wrong, we're accurately reporting what we were told." "Well what if you're wrong?" "What?" "Because that thing you said you heard about never happened." "We're just here to tell you what we were told." In fact, it never did happen. And it was a vary that escalated rapidly. Then, I may have mentioned this before, but one time, about 10 years ago or so, I was the forewoman on a murder trial.
Maureen: The murder trial was a cold case from 1989 in which a man was accused of murdering his grandmother while he was high on crack cocaine. She had been beaten over the head with an object, and then she was after that strangled with a telephone cord and hung from a doorknob. It was rough.
Dan: Wow. So a happy birthday to me. I appreciate that detail.
Maureen: The thing is they had a lot of evidence. Well the thing is they had a lot of evidence. They clipped her fingernails and preserved them, and they tested them for DNA and they found his DNA underneath. But they had a lot of other evidence against him, including the fact that she was on the phone at the time, and said, "So-and-so's at the door. I'm just going to get that," and hung up the phone. He was known for being violent. He was known for stealing from her. And his entire rest of the family was there. It was like he totally did it. They had giant piles of evidence that said that he did it. The reason they had not been able to prosecute ... and also, his witnesses he was with at the time of the murder ...
Maureen: He was like, "Here are the people that I was with." They looked into those people and those people were dead. They had been dead for six months at the time he had said that he was with them.
Dan: Oh good.
Maureen: That's the case Dan. Then the defense attorney, which is a public defender, he stands up and his whole line of questioning to the DNA expert is how big is DNA? The whole line of defense was that DNA was small. Once that occurred to me that this is really happening. His whole thing is that DNA is small. He did it. Also, afterwards I found out more about this case. This guy really did do it. There were giant, giant, giant, giant piles and it was all technicalities that they couldn't prosecute him in 1989. The family is literally begging for justice for this dead grandmother. It was horrific.
Maureen: Anyway Dan, all of this is in aid to say, is when I was listening to Jim Jordan, or the whole thing, the whole thing, I was very much reminded of, "DNA is small." At no point did anybody, anybody, any republican on that side, ever suggest or say, "The president should not have done this shit." Ever.
Dan: Right. No. Definitely not. Jim Jordan had an additional line of questioning, because a lot of ... essentially, when republicans weren't spewing conspiracy theories about the 2016 election and Hunter Biden and things like that, their basic way of attacking this testimony was to say, "You all are just talking about things that you've heard." Secondhand shit. First of all, the reason that you are getting people that are testifying about things that they were told instead of the people that did the telling is because the White House won't let any of those people come and testify.
Dan: Bit of a disingenuous argument to say, "The democrats are only producing secondhand witnesses," when they have actually subpoenaed for firsthand and they are not being allowed to come. But anyway, point being, one of the people that kept emerging over and over and over again in this Gordon Sondland, who is the ambassador to the EU. That sounds fancy and ambassadorial, but in fact before he became ambassador to the EU, which I think was this year but may have been last year, he is a multi-millionaire or billionaire hotel magnate, friend and donor to Donald Trump. He is not exactly a diplomat. He is sort of a central figure in all of this as one the people that are running the what Taylor calls the irregular channel, which Rudy Giuliani was running. But Sondland was sort of one of the main people.
Dan: During the original closed door testimonies, Sondland was held up by republicans as being one of the people that testified that there was no quid pro quo. When they began to release the testimony, they released alongside an amendment written by Sondland, that basically said, "Oh you know when I said there wasn't a quid pro quo, and then a bunch of other people testified that there was? Well yeah there was and here's the context for that. I talked to this person and told this person and that's how this person heard," and blah blah blah. Jim Jordan early on was like, "Ambassador Taylor, I have something for you to read. Here's a piece of paper," and had a piece of paper deliver to him. Then it's like the whole thing is filled. It turns out it's Sonland's amendment to his testimony.
Dan: Taylor looks at it and goes, "Would you like me to be reading this?" Jordan goes, "No. I want you to have it. I'm going to read it." Then he proceeds to read it and it's somewhat confusing sentence, that basically is Sondland said that he talked to Williams who then talked to Taylor, who you know. Jordan's basic thing was, "This is just crazy. The number of people that are talking to each other just doesn't make any sense. You mean to impeach a president based on someone telling someone something else? How can you even make any sense of it?" And Taylor's like, "Well, if it just ... It actually makes a lot of sense to me." And Jordan's like, "It doesn't make sense to me."
Maureen: Jim Jordan didn't just read that. He read it carnival barker quickly. You can make anything sound like it doesn't make sense if you read it like this. "And then he said this to me ... Does that make sense?" Well if you just actually read it normally, yes. I was like, "Is he trying to be an auctioneer? What's happening. Every time he would read it faster." You just have to make it-
Dan: "Congressperson Jordan, it makes perfect sense to me if you just read it slower."
Maureen: DNA is small. They said, "Well here you are. You're the star witness. Should he be impeached?" They're like, "Dude that's up to you. We're just here to tell you what we know." And they're like, "Oh, you're the start witness and you can't even say if he should be impeached?" Again, that's not their job. That's not-
Dan: "I'm not this star witness."
Maureen: He's literally like, "We never claimed to be star ... Dude, we're ... " All of this is to say that the republicans had very little they could do. They did the very little.
Dan: Literally ended with Devin Nunes' closing statement, which was to say that the hearings should be stopped until three basic questions are answered, which is a play off of the fact that the democrats set up sort of a rule of play, which was not enforced whatsoever yesterday, that there were three basic questions that all of the questioning should answer around. But Devin Nunes' questions yesterday were, "Who's the whistleblower and how is he coordinating with the democrats? What did the Ukraine do to meddle with the 2016 election?" And "What was Hunter Biden's job in Ukraine?" It's just so Jesus Christ.
Maureen: Right. They were trying to push the Ukraine interfered in the election, as opposed to Russia. They are literally doing the bidding of ... I mean yeah, they're doing the bidding of Russia. What do we even say about this? It's pretty straight up. It's pretty direct. It's at the point where weirdly, republicans, I mean they have been, but I mean it was really on show yesterday is that republicans are straight up nothing matters anymore. I mean they're just straight up attacking their own security departments, their own ambassadors, they're attacking their own body. Yeah, and to what benefit? And just talking about conspiracy theories. Usually-
Dan: Ringing in my head during all that was you actually, just the day before when reordered the other episode of SaysWho? this week, talking about doomsday cults. Realizing that that's what it is now. Nothing else matters. Attack every apparatus that is a part of the government, including one's who have traditionally are the ones that republicans stand up for the most, in fealty of the leader.
Maureen: Now obviously, they don't believe any of this shit. I don't know if any of these people believe this shit. I mean the only one that's even possible is Devin Nunes because he's real dumb, but he doesn't believe it. Right?
Dan: I don't know. I don't necessarily think they believe it, but I'm also not convinced that they don't not believe it.
Maureen: How?
Dan: I don't think that they are entirely ... I don't know if I believe what I'm saying right now. How can they believe it?
Maureen: They don't.
Dan: I don't.
Maureen: None of them like him. They all know he's full of shit. None of them believe the stuff because it doesn't make any sense. Why are they doing it?
Dan: I mean I think that I would maybe disagree with the statement that none of them like him. I think that there are a lot of people ... Nunes and Jordan and Matt Gaetz, who was not actually on this committee, it was amazing that he was not moved on. They desperately want to be liked by him. One of the weird powers that Donald Trump has over people is convincing them to work against their best interest, this is congresspeople, this is his own fucking children, right, in return for small and ever increasingly smaller reward from Donal Trump, right. I mean I think all of those guys want to be liked by him. They want some sort of reward that will never come from him. It is awful.
Maureen: All right Dan, what's the endgame here? Presumably they've war-roomed all of this out step-by-step, even through all of the witnesses next week, what do they get?
Dan: They're eight witnesses next week. There's still one more tomorrow too. The prior ambassador to Ukraine, the one that was sort of at the brunt of-
Maureen: That's going to be fascinating.
Dan: Yeah. At the brunt of Rudy Giuliani's smear campaign is Marie Yovanovitch, and she'll be testifying tomorrow. Then next week it's eight different people including Gordon Sondland.
Maureen: Shout out to the podcast Trump, Inc by ProPublica, which breaks down the Trump businesses. They do a deep dive this week into her and into how ... because how these Ukraine connections work can be confusing.
Dan: Definitely.
Maureen: They do a good job in breaking down all of these European connections, but-
Dan: A couple of weeks ago, they did an episode on Rudy Giuliani's exploits in Ukraine, which is also really, really good.
Maureen: Yeah. It's really fascinating this stuff. At first, you're like ... and then you dip your toe in a little bit you're like, "Oh okay." A picture begins to emerge, and it is such a New York picture too. Living here, it's so ... this is a kind of personality type you get familiar with, living in New York. You know what I mean? The operators.
Dan: Yeah.
Maureen: Everything has a double ... I worked in restaurants in New York in the late 90s, and it was well known. At this one restaurant I worked at, they're like, "Yeah, they're running a coke ring out of the upstairs." I was like, "Huh? This is a restaurant." They're like, "Yeah, but there's a lot of money being filtered through." I was like, "Really?" But apparently, yeah. There was a lot of double purposing of ... you just get used to stuff that's not quite up-and-up. Not that you participate in it, you just find out it's happening all around you. Certainly where I live is even like that. All of New York real estate is just a quagmire of duplicity. I mean there's almost no straight New York real estate, it's all ... and that's waters Donald Trump comes from, which is why we're all like, "Really? That guy?"
Dan: Yeah 100%.
Maureen: "That's our dumbest one. Him?"
Dan: And then Rudy.
Maureen: And Rudy. Our crazy uncle Rudy and the dumbest dude. What didn't you get the guy from Cushman and Wakefield or whatever? What? Why this one? But anyway Dan, what's important is our update on your burner phone.
Dan: Oh Maureen Johnson.
Maureen: Now in the last episode, Dan realized that he could probably get Rudy Giuliani's phone number, and then get a burner phone to text him.
Dan: And that we could then pitch him on producing his impeachment podcast that leaked out he was considering doing.
Maureen: How'd that turn out?
Dan: Well Maureen, first of all, I did get phone numbers for Rudy Giuliani, and I got them on my first try. That was sort of exciting. As I DMed them to you, imagine if I used my powers for evil.
Maureen: I know. That's why I want you on my good side. Dan, I have to say when I first me you, before I knew you, I was scared of you because I'm like, "This guy. You don't want to get on this guy's bad side."
Dan: Turns out I'm really very nice, and that's part of why you can get people that shouldn't to give you Rudy Giuliani's phone number. The person that gave them to me, I'm not going to do anything to reveal who they are. They give a caveat that he changes his phone number a lot and that they would supply me with the three most recent that they had for him. I then did some research because I did not feel comfortable using my own phone number to contact Rudy Giuliani. As small a thing as that is, it felt like I should maybe up my operational security on this manner. I talked to a friend of mine who is very good at security stuff about how do I get a burner phone and all of that kind of thing.
Dan: Turns out burner phones that were at the central point of ... was it The Wire, season one? Was that when they were buying burner phones? Or was it season three? I can't remember.
Maureen: I don't know.
Dan: But basically buying a track phone off the rack and using that and paying cash for it. You can't pay cash for phones anymore because of the fact that used for a lot of things. He outlined a rather involved process of eBay purchases and things like that. I was like, "That sounds like more than I need." He was like, "Oh, well you just need a number that can't be traced, just use the burner app." I was like, "Wait. What?" Maureen there is an app called burner that is pitched for, "Business and dating," which is-
Maureen: I'm just shaking my head right now. Shaking my head.
Dan: Yeah. That you can pay five dollars a month and you get a phone number. You chose the phone number and it routes through your phone but does not send any identifying information of your phone, instead it uses a burner number. You can refresh the number at any point. You can just get a new number. It's all on the up-and-up there Maureen, for sure. Hell of a business model there.
Maureen: Man alive am I glad I don't date.
Dan: Yeah. Over the course of yesterday, I sent texts to all three of Rudy Giuliani's phone numbers. I have not heard back yet.
Maureen: Do any of them appear to have been read? Received?
Dan: You don't get a read receipt on them, but none of them bounced. They all were delivered. I'm just looking right now. Yeah, all three have not been ... let's see if there's a read receipt. No, there's no read receipts. We'll see. I was going to re-up with a perhaps with a ... they were very straight-forward, just, "I'm an independent podcast producer. Was wondering if you need help." Might try and get a little more pizazz in there for the next round.
Maureen: Yeah. It does feel a little spamy, so you might just-
Dan: Yeah. Maybe put a little more funk on that junk. Yeah.
Maureen: ... say, "Hey. Chicago journalist. I really want to get your message out there. I really want to get your message out there."
Dan: I don't want to make too many promises.
Maureen: Oh but you want to get his message out there, Dan. Oh boy do you.
Dan: Anyway, it's underway, thanks in large part to your Patreon contributions, which are covering my business and dating phone number.
Maureen: Directly thanks to you.
Dan: Can you imagine the VC pitch meeting that these people went in? They were like, "Look. Here's the deal. We want to make life easy for drug dealers and adulterers." And someone was like, "I'm in. Here's five million dollars."
Maureen: "You had me at easy."
Dan: "You had me at adulterers."
Maureen: Yeah there's no shortage of bad VC ... for example, Dan, this is not something that you wanted to know, but my GYN, he's a real show boaty rockstar kind of doctor, but he has done multiple surgeries on me.
Dan: What? You have a rockstar, show boat, OB-GYN?
Maureen: I do.
Dan: I'm just imagining Job Bluth. Knife in his hand ...
Maureen: I wish you were wrong. I wish you were wrong.
Dan: Oh no.
Maureen: My mom is a nurse and always described what the rockstar doctors were like. They always walk around with the people behind them and they got a lot of attitude. He was in a movie about giving birth. He has a lot of celebrity patients. He's the Good Morning America GYN sometimes.
Dan: This is a remarkably New York story.
Maureen: This is the man that when I woke up from surgery, I heard him saying that he had 80000 bees in a house in upstate New York. This is that same guy.
Dan: Okay.
Maureen: Yeah. As I was coming out of anesthesia, they were having trouble waking me up, and I hear him saying, "I've got 80000 bees in a house in upstate New York." I got so excited by this, that even in my anesthesia state, I started reaching out, clawing for his arm. I pulled him and I said, "Did you say you have 80000 bees in a house in upstate New York?" And he said, "Yeah. You heard that?" I was like, "Hell yeah I heard that," and I went back to sleep, but I was so excited. Anyway, my rockstar doctor ... I know none of you asked about my tube. But this guy he is actually a really good surgeon. I had complications from surgery that are not his fault. It was something that happened afterwards. A procedure that happened that another hospital didn't tell him about. It's not his fault that I got sick. It was an accident that happened offsite and my body working together.
Maureen: This guy's actually a really good doctor, but he is a rockstar show boater. He has joined one of these concierge's practices. They've opened up in New York this super goop boutiquey ... it's like the prettiest office in New York and it's super adorable and it's got hoops and stuff. They give you beautiful fuzzy robes and chenille blankets and they have an app and it's naturopathy. Scented oil. I was like ... But it's also a membership service. You have to pay $150.00 a year to be a member and you get an app. I'm like, "I don't want any of this shit." I just want a doctor. All of this is to say is that there's so much stupid money out there. It's burner phone apps and dumb ... I just want to go to the doctor. I don't want you to give me ... I don't want you to rub me down with lavender oil and talk to me about magic rocks or anything. Just please stop. Anyway Dan, I'm saying New York, this is what we produce Dan. Bullshit.
Dan: Well you've produced a bullshit mayor that we really want to make his podcast.
Maureen: Oh do we ever. Uncle Rudy. Come to us.
Dan: We could do a good job.
Maureen: Both Trump and Giuliani are so hilariously New York. I do feel that living here really does give us ... we know our own. This is the kind of shit we make. Chicago, you make some shit. LA you make a kind of shit. Texas, you make a kind of shit. Every city makes its own kind of shit and this is ours and we know it. He was here this week Dan. Blocking my street.
Dan: That's right. Just down the road from you.
Maureen: Yeah not too far.
Dan: The Veteran's Day Parade, is that right?
Maureen: Yup, they came and did ... They blocked off the whole street with garbage trucks is what they do. He was literally surrounded by a wall of garbage trucks, which I was like, "Checks out." Anyway Dan, tomorrow we do it again.
Dan: Yeah. Marie Yovanovitch. You will not hear from us on the regular feed tomorrow, but for Town Watch members, that is Patreon supporters at the $5.00 and up level, you will hear from us tomorrow because we have a very special episode for the Town Watch, that is you talking about Watergate until your dog shits the floor.
Maureen: Wish that wasn't true, but it is.
Dan: That's my favorite part of the whole thing, to be honest.
Maureen: How does it end? With the shouting?
Dan: There's a hard stop. It just ends with you being like, "Oh my God. Oh my God. No. Oh no. Oh no. Oh." And then I'm basically like, "Town Watch, stay vigilant," click.
Maureen: Yeah, she is [Geardy] again because ... while I was in LA she had to go to puppy camp. They just pick stuff up from each other there. It's like daycare. She came back-
Dan: In daycare they just let them swim in the Gowanus Canal.
Maureen: Well you know they got to get exercise. I knew she was off and the whole time we were recording, I had an eye on her and I'm like, "Something's not right." But I was like, "I think I can time this out." And then I was like, "Uh oh some ... " and then I just watched her go over and yeah. It ends badly. But I have to continue that because I don't even remember how far I got with the Watergate story.
Dan: Hey we did have to do, "This will be part one," so we will need to record a second part at some point. But patreon.com/sayswho. If you are not currently a $5.00 or up supporter, go do that because your support is what makes this possible. I want to say that at the $10.00 and up level, at the one year anniversary point of our Patreon, we added continuing support prizes, a sticker that for anyone at the $2.00 and up level, if you've supported for four months or longer you get another sticker in the mail. But for $10.00 and up level, we are commissioning a map. And Maureen Johnson, the artist just sent me thumbnails of potential layouts for the map. A map of SaysWhovia. I need to forward that a long to you. It's getting real. This map is getting real.
Maureen: Yeah this map is [crosstalk 00:49:45].
Dan: A map of SaysWhovia, the major landmarks, the monorail line, all of it. I'm excited about the map. But you can get that. You can get bonus episodes including tomorrows Watergate episode at patreon.com/sayswho. Thank you.
Maureen: What time is testimony tomorrow, Dan?
Dan: I believe the testimony will always be a 10:00 AM eastern start and the formats will follow every time. Which I realized today, next week there are eight people testifying, though a number of them are grouped together. But Devin Nunes is going to have to do opening statements and fucking fill 45 minutes every time. That's going to get painful by the second or third rendition of the airing of grievances.
Maureen: Oh boy. All right. Well-
Dan: But yeah. 10:00 AM tomorrow for Marie Yovanovitch. Or as everyone called her yesterday, Masha, which is her nickname apparently.
Maureen: Well here we go.
Dan: Here we go. Our theme music is performed by Ted Leo. Excuse me. Our logo is designed by Darth. Darth-
Maureen: We love you.
Dan: ... has gone into hibernation Maureen and-
Maureen: Oh no. Really?
Dan: Yes. I wish Darth a wonderful rest and a return when they are ready.
Maureen: Yeah.
Dan: It's sad. They literally can't fire anyone from the White House until Darth returns from hibernation.
Maureen: Do you think Darth will come out for that?
Dan: I don't know. I'm genuinely worried because Darth has the ... They need to open a wing of the Smithsonian once this all over that is simple the evolution of Darth's fired White House employees standing outside the White House Photoshop collage that they've been building.
Maureen: Yeah.
Dan: You can contact @saywhopodcast on Twitter. You can email at hey, that is H-E-Y @sayswhopodcast.com. You can joint the discussion on Facebook @groups/sayswhovians. Our Facebook group is moderated by Janice Dillard. Maureen, yesterday the Facebook group had two open threads. One was a thread for people watching the hearing, the other was a thread for people not watching the hearing. Both of them were blowing up for hours yesterday. It was wonderful to see the support that all SaysWhovians have for each other.
Maureen: It sure is.
Dan: A wonderful group of people collected there. You can spread the word, subscribe, and please leave stars and reviews on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. You can join us next Wednsday, November 20th, for our next episode. Maureen Johnson, something else happens next Wednsday, November 20th, do you know what it is? Do you? Do you? Do you?
Maureen: Your birthday.
Dan: No, that's today. November 14th.
Maureen: Your birthday again.
Dan: Nope. Nope. Nope.
Maureen: What? What? What?
Dan: Another democratic debate.
Maureen: Mm-mm (negative). Nope.
Dan: Woo.
Maureen: Nope.
Dan: Right after that, November 22nd through 24th, you can join Maureen in wonderful warm Miami, at the Miami book fair. You can take a high speed rail from Miami to Palm Beach. You could go to Mar-a-Lago.
Maureen: Actually one of the things on the hotel site is how far it is from the Trump Doral.
Dan: No. No. Really?
Maureen: Yeah.
Dan: How far is it from the garbage dumps that overlook Trump Doral?
Maureen: Yeah, no, it's one of the local things. If you want to play gold you can go over to the Trump Doral. Maybe I'll do that.
Dan: Wow.
Maureen: Yeah.
Dan: Fun. There you go.
Maureen: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dan: Oh hey. There you go.
Maureen: Maureen goes to the Trump Doral.
Dan: I don't think you can just walk in to golf. I think you got to be a member. Maybe the golfing's different. I don't know.
Maureen: It sounds like maybe you can do ... I don't know Dan.
Dan: You should talk to a concierge.
Maureen: "I'd really like to go to the Trump Doral. Can you hook that up for me?"
Dan: Yeah. Special. Do a ... bring a little portable mic, special episode. Maureen hits the links. Have you ever golfed? I have never golfed.
Maureen: I've never golfed, but my boyfriend in high school was the greens keeper at a public golf course, and we used to ride golf carts around at night. Does that count?
Dan: I've never done that either.
Maureen: It was fun.
Dan: That I would love to do.
Maureen: That was real fun.
Dan: Hell that seems like half the reason to be involved in a golf situation, to be able to joyride in the golf carts.
Maureen: He would turn the governors off so that they would go fast and we would just ride all around on those.
Dan: Souping up the golf carts.
Maureen: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Fuck yeah.
Dan: You should do that when you're in Miami November 22nd through the 24th for the Miami book fair. Join Maureen midnight on the greens of Trump Doral for some souped up Trumped up golf cart action.
Maureen: Well Dan, let's do this again tomorrow.
Dan: From my basement in Chicago, I am Dan Sinker.
Maureen: From my new carpet here in New York, I'm Maureen Johnson.
Dan: And this has been a very special extra impeachment hearing episode of SaysWho?
Maureen: Dan when I flipped that carpet over and pulled up the mattress pad and saw all the splotches where the puppies had been, oh boy.
Dan: Oh gross.
Maureen: Oh it was a whole biome in there Dan. They are filthy. And it's white. I worked really hard to keep that thing clean for 10 years, but I had two dogs. One who had cancer and was sick all the time and the other who was an insane puppy. And also, Zelda had her puppy-dom on it. Biome. I would send that thing out to Queens to be cleaned and they would put it in a vat. It took two weeks to clean that thing because they would boil it in a vat.
Dan: "We got the Johnson rug again."
Maureen: They have a vat out in Queens that they boil your rugs in. They hand them to dry and then they boil them again and then they hang the, to dry. Yeah.
Dan: Ugh the poor soul whose job it is, is to empty the vat.
Maureen: I don't know what happens in that vat.
Dan: Ugh. That's why the Gowanus Canal's so fucked up.
Maureen: Patient zero came out of that carpet Dan.
Dan: Full of rug vat.
Maureen: If a fully raccoon emerged from that rug, I would not have been surprised. I worked so hard to keep it clean. No shoes. Constantly cleaning it. Just recently I was sitting on it and just smelled ... I was like, "Oh rug, I love you so much but you got to go. You got to go"
Dan: Good bye rug.
Maureen: Good bye rug.
Dan: And good bye SaysWhovia. We'll see you next Wednsday.
Maureen: Why does so much of this revolve around my dogs pooping?
Dan: It's just how it is.
Maureen: Yeah. It's just how it is.